金博宝世界杯体育赛事groups and item notes

188BET靠谱吗As I'm putting together the syllabus for a seminar I'm teaching (starting next week!) using Zotero groups, I'm finding a really awkward wrinkle: interaction between item notes and groups.I can find no way to add a note to an item and share it via the group (note: base on what I see in the web interface).The only way I can find to share a note is if it's a standalone note.I find this all really awkward and limiting.

I do realize this is a bit tricky though, and it suggests to me need for finer-grained permissions.For example, I don't share notes globally.But this group is private.金博宝世界杯体育赛事So I need to be able to distinguish notes that get shared in groups, vs.those that are private, vs.those that are public.And the UI needs to make this all clear.

So, am I missing something?If not, is there a plan to address this soon?
  • edited August 19, 2009
    Child notes can certainly be shared via a group (I'm using the trunk version r4911).

    In the group library: select an item, right-click & select "add attachment."

    (EDIT: remove link to a group note, which had been for testing only)
  • OK, that's good.I still find the UI a little confusing though.For example, let's say I find an item and add it to my library, and add three notes.I then decide to share the item via the group, but I only want to share first item.How is this supposed to work?Am I correct that currently I'd have to readd the note after having added the item to the group?E.g.I can't expose an existing child note for sharing via a group?
  • Am I correct that currently I'd have to readd the note after having added the item to the group?
    Apparently.No notes seem to be draggable from personal to group libraries at the moment.
  • So if that's right, I think my suggestion on this is to allow (soon!) a user to change the permissions on a note individually, and not to force them to have to do this with d-n-d (which will be really confusing in my view).

    Am not sure whether the UI should be a checkbox or pop-up on the note, a contextual menu item, or both.

    金博宝世界杯体育赛事Am also not sure if the option should just be a boolean share/no share, or a more complex option to allow users to choose which groups to share with, but my impulse is towards the first.
  • So, part of the issue here is that you're not technically "exposing" anything for sharing.Items in different libraries (personal and group) are completely separate copies.If you edit one, the changes don't apply to the other.(We're tracking these inter-library links behind-the-scenes for later use, and an obvious eventual use is to apply changes one way or the other, but managing that process is a whole other problem.) Whether or not something is public in your personal library isn't necessarily indicative of whether it should appear in a given group.So it's not really a permissions problem, but a rather a UI one—we need to somehow allow a parent item to be copied to a group but allow control over which child items are copied.And it probably needs to either default to not including child items (as is the case now) or pop up some sort of window that lets you choose which ones to include.

    As for copying child items after that: A checkbox is better suited for the permissions model.For the copy model, something like an "Add to Library" or "Copy To" option in the context menu of an item, using the cross-library link of the parent item, might work.It'd give you a warning with an option to overwrite if the child item already existed.金博宝世界杯体育赛事It'd only give groups as options if the parent item had already been copied there (though you should be able to copy the parent across via the context menu too).

    Other ideas welcome.
  • 金博宝世界杯体育赛事I was expecting that groups are just a special kind of collection.Why the copy model instead?
  • The copy model is far more straightforward for both development and use, even with the tough UI questions above.

    金博宝世界杯体育赛事Different groups have different uses and likely require different permissions, but if you had the same instance of an item (say, a note) in multiple groups, the permissions of the least restrictive would essentially allow members of that group to make changes in all your other groups.If you don't want that, you're stuck making item-level permissions changes (group-specific?global?) that are very difficult to convey and control in a UI.With the copy model you can set permissions on the group and do a controlled merge in one direction or another as you see fit (or just delete it when you're done without it affecting the rest of your library).You can work anywhere, including in your personal library, without worrying whether or not you're exposing data you didn't mean to expose or whether an item you delete from one place will be deleted from other places it exists (as you might expect if other changes apply automatically).
  • This is a subject that I'm very interested in, as the correct implementation of management between group and local library references would really make my collaborative research work much easier.188BET靠谱吗I'm working on a collaborative database of methods for free energy calculations, and no current software works that well -- I'm using Aigaion, but would love to move to Zotero, which seems to have much more of a future.

    1) I want to be able to;

    -Make notes on a my local copy;
    -sync some of the notes out to the group;
    -pull in other peoples notes;

    I wonder if the right way to do this is some sort of reconciliation model!each person has their own copy in a local library and in the remote library.If there are differences between the local and the remote version, you are prompted to look at the differences and decide what you want to accept or reject the remote version differences in your local copy.This could build off of citation reconciliation software that is already being developed (as I understand) for reconciling citations locally.The ability to revise the repository copy can be set globally!various permission levels could be edit all, and add notes only, and read only.

    Notes and files could be identified as either a local note or a global note!global notes are put into the repository for reconciling, local notes are never put in.

    188BET靠谱吗Right now, I have the same files in both my local Zotero data base and in a the groups database, and it's a massive pain, because I don't want to do everything twice!That's what computers are for!

    金博宝世界杯体育赛事2) Could you post a "development roadmap" for groups, to see what is being planned in the future?For example, search functionality within group repositories would be very good on the webpage (I'm pretty sure people are thinking about this already from other posts).
  • My question may be more fundamental than those posted on this thread so far, but it seems related.I have set up a private group to provide bibliographies on various topics to students in my graduate-level research design class.I have defined the group such that I am the only member able to add or edit items in the group collections.188BET靠谱吗My assumption was that students would be able to copy these references to their own libraries, then add their own tags or notes in Zotero, or export records to EndNote.This doesn't seem to work.It's not just that notes can't be copied from a group to an individual library, but that the bibliographic records for the items themselves can't be copied (by the students -- I seem to be able to do so).Is this the way it is supposed to work, or are we doing something wrong?

    Thanks
  • I too have some concerns with the way group libraries (will) work.At our lab we wish to share our libraries, notes and maybe in the future also attachments.For now, we all just copy our entire libraries to a "personal" collection on a private group library.This way, we loose the notes and the attachments.Moreover, if I change something on my local library, or add or delete an object, this is not reflected in the group library, causing me to redo the same adjustments each time again to the group library or rebuilding it from the ground up.

    I wonder if a "link" approach would not be more appropriate, in which a group library is merely a collection of links to items or collections in private libraries, and per-item or per-collection permissions.Right-clicking a item or collection in a private library would show a "share..." option.金博宝世界杯体育赛事The window that is opened this way, would allow to share or unshare the item/collection to subscribed groups, each with its own options (read/write permissions for the items, notes and attachments,...).If (and only if) a group member has the appropriate permissions, he is able to alter the data in the group item, which is in fact directly linked to the owner's (online version of the) private library item.An extra safety can be foreseen here: when syncing the owner could be asked if he accepts the changes.188BET靠谱吗If a group member adds a note or attachment of his own to an item he doesn't own, zotero should silently make a copy of the group item into the private library, and some parental heritage field could be kept in order to group both versions in the group library.

    188BET靠谱吗Much of the efforts of building and maintaining group libraries is thus concentrated at the zotero.org servers.Treating group libraries this way, however, would render them only usable online.188BET靠谱吗To be able to use them offline and search them with the zotero program, a local copy of the library is still nescessary, containing all metadata and notes.188BET靠谱吗Only when syncing with zotero.org, the latter should automatically scatter and gather together the data to/from the private libraries.

    188BET靠谱吗In a distant future I would very much like to contribute to zotero, especially on collaboration ideas like this.For now lack of time and javascript knowledge keep me calm.188BET靠谱吗I hope, however, you appreciate my ideas-without-code as much as I appreciate zotero.
  • FWIW, my experience trying to introduce this for use in a graduate seminar suggests people have a hard time understanding how to manage the relation between personal and group content.金博宝世界杯体育赛事I was originally planing on having students contribute weekly reading responses though groups, but have decided to scrap that for this reason, in favor of a listserv.

    Might be worth doing some usability testing on this if you can manage somehow.
  • It's worth reiterating that most of the functionality for managing items between personal and group libraries isn't actually in place.

    188BET靠谱吗In 2.0b7, dragging items between libraries will copy child notes, snapshots/files, and links based on checkboxes for each (enabled by default) in the Zotero preferences.This will address the initial copy.After that will come mechanisms for copying additional child items after the initial copy and merging changes in various directions.
  • 188BET靠谱吗My assumption was that students would be able to copy these references to their own libraries, then add their own tags or notes in Zotero, or export records to EndNote.This doesn't seem to work.It's not just that notes can't be copied from a group to an individual library, but that the bibliographic records for the items themselves can't be copied (by the students -- I seem to be able to do so).
    They should certainly be able to do so, and this works for me from a private group.Could you double-check that this is the case, and post to a new thread if they're still having trouble?Just to be clear, in 2.0b6.5 they can only drag items, not collections, and each item will only be able to be dragged to their personal libraries once.
  • In 2.0b7, dragging items between libraries will copy child notes, snapshots/files,188BET靠谱吗and links based on checkboxes for each (enabled by default) in the Zotero preferences.
    Dan, am I understanding you correctly that the much-sought-after group attachments feature is this close?Are you implementing it by allowing each group library to have its own webDAV credentials?
  • Are you implementing it by allowing each group library to have its own webDAV credentials?
    I'm not sure but I would say that's unlikely - rumour has it that 2.0b7 implements a new storage solution not based on webDAV, and I would guess group storage would use this new system.
  • happy to report that's not just a rumor - Dan has just committed the respective update to the trunk and from a quick glance it seems exactly what Bionatsci is saying.
  • edited September 13, 2009
    Ah, let it come already!For the last three weeks ago various people have been saying 'in a few days' and 'very soon' and 'just wait a little while'.I can't wait anymore!
  • i'm sure there are a lot of people who want the opposite to be the default, i.e.DO NOT share my notes without asking me first.
Sign Inor Registerto comment.